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#1 cheerios

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Posted 23 May 2004 - 02:36 PM

I am getting a lot of annoying web pages that I didn't request when I surf the Internet, mostly from spotresults.com, zestyfinder.com, and spybloc.com. I have read the FAQ and followed all instructions, except fixing problems in hijackthis because I am not comfortable doing this without expert help. Updated Spybots found nothing, Adaware found asaamon.dll, which it can't delete. I've included the hijackthis log below. Please help! Thank you!

Logfile of HijackThis v1.97.7
Scan saved at 2:21:29 PM, on 5/23/2004
Platform: Windows XP SP1 (WinNT 5.01.2600)
MSIE: Internet Explorer v6.00 SP1 (6.00.2800.1106)

Running processes:
C:\WINDOWS\System32\smss.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\winlogon.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\services.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\lsass.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\svchost.exe
C:\WINDOWS\System32\svchost.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\rundll32.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\spoolsv.exe
C:\WINDOWS\Explorer.EXE
C:\PROGRA~1\mcafee.com\agent\mcagent.exe
C:\Program Files\Common Files\Dell\EUSW\Support.exe
C:\PROGRA~1\mcafee.com\vso\mcvsshld.exe
C:\PROGRA~1\McAfee.com\PERSON~1\MpfTray.exe
c:\progra~1\mcafee.com\vso\mcvsescn.exe
C:\PROGRA~1\MYWEBS~1\bar\3.bin\mwsoemon.exe
C:\Program Files\Dell\Support\Alert\bin\NotifyAlert.exe
C:\PROGRA~1\COMMON~1\AOL\ACS\acsd.exe
C:\WINDOWS\System32\CTsvcCDA.exe
c:\PROGRA~1\mcafee.com\vso\mcvsrte.exe
C:\PROGRA~1\McAfee.com\PERSON~1\MPFSERVICE.exe
C:\WINDOWS\System32\MsPMSPSv.exe
C:\PROGRA~1\McAfee.com\PERSON~1\MpfAgent.exe
c:\PROGRA~1\mcafee.com\vso\mcshield.exe
c:\progra~1\mcafee.com\vso\mcvsftsn.exe
C:\Program Files\Internet Explorer\IEXPLORE.EXE
C:\Documents and Settings\Cheryl Minnis\Desktop\Utilities\HijackThis.exe

R0 - HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main,Start Page = http://www.neopets.com/
R1 - HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main,Default_Page_URL = http://www.dell4me.com/myway
R1 - HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Internet Settings,ProxyServer = 192.168.0.1:85
R3 - Default URLSearchHook is missing
N3 - Netscape 7: user_pref("browser.startup.homepage", "http://www.neopets.com"); (C:\Documents and Settings\Cheryl Minnis\Application Data\Mozilla\Profiles\default\kvrqui03.slt\prefs.js)
N3 - Netscape 7: user_pref("browser.search.defaultengine", "engine://C%3A%5CProgram%20Files%5Cmozilla.org%5CMozilla%5Csearchplugins%5Cgoogle.src"); (C:\Documents and Settings\Cheryl Minnis\Application Data\Mozilla\Profiles\default\kvrqui03.slt\prefs.js)
O1 - Hosts: `J`J??UU
 ??

O1 - Hosts: 207.36.196.189 auto.search.msn.com
O1 - Hosts: 207.36.196.189 search.netscape.com
O1 - Hosts: 207.36.196.189 ieautosearch
O3 - Toolbar: McAfee VirusScan - {BA52B914-B692-46c4-B683-905236F6F655} - c:\progra~1\mcafee.com\vso\mcvsshl.dll
O3 - Toolbar: &Radio - {8E718888-423F-11D2-876E-00A0C9082467} - C:\WINDOWS\System32\msdxm.ocx
O3 - Toolbar: My &Web Search - {07B18EA9-A523-4961-B6BB-170DE4475CCA} - C:\Program Files\MyWebSearch\bar\3.bin\MWSBAR.DLL
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [VSOCheckTask] "c:\PROGRA~1\mcafee.com\vso\mcmnhdlr.exe" /checktask
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [MCAgentExe] c:\PROGRA~1\mcafee.com\agent\mcagent.exe
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [DwlClient] C:\Program Files\Common Files\Dell\EUSW\Support.exe
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [VirusScan Online] "c:\PROGRA~1\mcafee.com\vso\mcvsshld.exe"
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [MPFExe] C:\PROGRA~1\McAfee.com\PERSON~1\MpfTray.exe
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [MyWebSearch Email Plugin] C:\PROGRA~1\MYWEBS~1\bar\3.bin\mwsoemon.exe
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [MCUpdateExe] C:\PROGRA~1\mcafee.com\agent\McUpdate.exe
O4 - HKCU\..\Run: [CookieJar] C:\Program Files\Cookie Jar\CookieJar.exe /qd_banned /qd_undecided
O8 - Extra context menu item: &Add animation to IncrediMail Style Box - C:\PROGRA~1\INCRED~1\bin\resources\WebMenuImg.htm
O8 - Extra context menu item: &Search - http://bar.mywebsear...earch.html?p=ZS
O9 - Extra 'Tools' menuitem: Sun Java Console (HKLM)
O9 - Extra button: Messenger (HKLM)
O9 - Extra 'Tools' menuitem: Yahoo! Messenger (HKLM)
O9 - Extra button: ICQ Pro (HKLM)
O9 - Extra 'Tools' menuitem: ICQ (HKLM)
O15 - Trusted Zone: http://www.hotmail.com
O15 - Trusted Zone: http://www.pcpitstop.com
O16 - DPF: {0E5F0222-96B9-11D3-8997-00104BD12D94} (PCPitstop Utility) - http://www.pcpitstop...p/pcpitstop.cab
O16 - DPF: {2BC66F54-93A8-11D3-BEB6-00105AA9B6AE} (Symantec AntiVirus scanner) - http://security.syma...bin/AvSniff.cab
O16 - DPF: {30528230-99F7-4BB4-88D8-FA1D4F56A2AB} (YInstStarter Class) - http://download.yaho...s/yinst0401.cab
O16 - DPF: {4ED9DDF0-7479-4BBE-9335-5A1EDB1D8A21} (McAfee.com Operating System Class) - http://download.mcaf...81/mcinsctl.cab
O16 - DPF: {9732FB42-C321-11D1-836F-00A0C993F125} (mhLabel Class) - http://www.pcpitstop.com/mhLbl.cab
O16 - DPF: {BCC0FF27-31D9-4614-A68E-C18E1ADA4389} (DwnldGroupMgr Class) - http://download.mcaf...,19/mcgdmgr.cab
O16 - DPF: {C2FCEF52-ACE9-11D3-BEBD-00105AA9B6AE} (Symantec RuFSI Registry Information Class) - http://security.syma...n/bin/cabsa.cab
O16 - DPF: {D27CDB6E-AE6D-11CF-96B8-444553540000} (Shockwave Flash Object) - http://fpdownload.ma...ash/swflash.cab
O16 - DPF: {DF780F87-FF2B-4DF8-92D0-73DB16A1543A} (PopCapLoader Object) - http://utu.popcap.co...aploader_v5.cab

#2 Newkid

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Posted 23 May 2004 - 03:58 PM

Hello Cherios,

Welcome to SWI !

First, Move HijackThis.exe to a separate folder of its own like c:\HJT\Hijacthis.exe. The program will make backups to the folder it's in. These easily get lost in a folder with other programs.

Now, Close down all the window instance, IE window, Rescan your machine with hijackthis and have hijacthis fix the following entries..

R3 - Default URLSearchHook is missing
O1 - Hosts: `J`J??  UU
 ??  

O1 - Hosts: 207.36.196.189 auto.search.msn.com
O1 - Hosts: 207.36.196.189 search.netscape.com
O1 - Hosts: 207.36.196.189 ieautosearch

O3 - Toolbar: My &Web Search - {07B18EA9-A523-4961-B6BB-170DE4475CCA} - C:\Program Files\MyWebSearch\bar\3.bin\MWSBAR.DLL
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [MyWebSearch Email Plugin] C:\PROGRA~1\MYWEBS~1\bar\3.bin\mwsoemon.exe

O8 - Extra context menu item: &Search - http://bar.mywebsear...earch.html?p=ZS

O16 - DPF: {C2FCEF52-ACE9-11D3-BEBD-00105AA9B6AE} (Symantec RuFSI Registry Information Class) - http://security.syma...n/bin/cabsa.cab


Reboot & boot into normal mode.

Now, Remove this entire folder.. MyWebSearch & then clear your recycle bin as well.

When you've done all, rescan your machine with hijacthis and post a fresh log.

With thanks !
Newkid !

Edited by Newkid, 23 May 2004 - 04:00 PM.

Once a new technology rolls over you, if you're not part of the streamroller, you're part of the road.

No one can drive us crazy unless we give them the keys

#3 cheerios

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Posted 23 May 2004 - 09:17 PM

Thanks for the welcome! I put HJT in its own folder, closed IE, re-ran the HJT scan, fixed the problems you listed, rebooted, and deleted the MyWebSearch folder. A new HJT scan log follows. I've noticed a new situation: getting another page with URL http://66.33.0.35/sp...s/adv/tdw1.html. Only seems to happen when I access this SWI site tho, is that URL suppose to a part of this site or is it yet another hijacker problem?

Logfile of HijackThis v1.97.7
Scan saved at 9:15:28 PM, on 5/23/2004
Platform: Windows XP SP1 (WinNT 5.01.2600)
MSIE: Internet Explorer v6.00 SP1 (6.00.2800.1106)

Running processes:
C:\WINDOWS\System32\smss.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\winlogon.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\services.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\lsass.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\svchost.exe
C:\WINDOWS\System32\svchost.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\spoolsv.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\rundll32.exe
C:\WINDOWS\Explorer.EXE
C:\PROGRA~1\mcafee.com\agent\mcagent.exe
C:\Program Files\Common Files\Dell\EUSW\Support.exe
C:\PROGRA~1\mcafee.com\vso\mcvsshld.exe
C:\PROGRA~1\McAfee.com\PERSON~1\MpfTray.exe
c:\progra~1\mcafee.com\vso\mcvsescn.exe
C:\Program Files\Dell\Support\Alert\bin\NotifyAlert.exe
C:\PROGRA~1\COMMON~1\AOL\ACS\acsd.exe
C:\WINDOWS\System32\CTsvcCDA.exe
c:\PROGRA~1\mcafee.com\vso\mcvsrte.exe
C:\PROGRA~1\McAfee.com\PERSON~1\MPFSERVICE.exe
C:\WINDOWS\System32\MsPMSPSv.exe
C:\PROGRA~1\McAfee.com\PERSON~1\MpfAgent.exe
c:\PROGRA~1\mcafee.com\vso\mcshield.exe
C:\Program Files\mozilla.org\Mozilla\mozilla.exe
C:\HijackThis\HijackThis.exe

R0 - HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main,Start Page = http://www.neopets.com/
R1 - HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main,Default_Page_URL = http://www.dell4me.com/myway
R1 - HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Internet Settings,ProxyServer = 192.168.0.1:85
N3 - Netscape 7: user_pref("browser.startup.homepage", "http://www.neopets.com"); (C:\Documents and Settings\Cheryl Minnis\Application Data\Mozilla\Profiles\default\kvrqui03.slt\prefs.js)
N3 - Netscape 7: user_pref("browser.search.defaultengine", "engine://C%3A%5CProgram%20Files%5Cmozilla.org%5CMozilla%5Csearchplugins%5Cgoogle.src"); (C:\Documents and Settings\Cheryl Minnis\Application Data\Mozilla\Profiles\default\kvrqui03.slt\prefs.js)
O3 - Toolbar: McAfee VirusScan - {BA52B914-B692-46c4-B683-905236F6F655} - c:\progra~1\mcafee.com\vso\mcvsshl.dll
O3 - Toolbar: &Radio - {8E718888-423F-11D2-876E-00A0C9082467} - C:\WINDOWS\System32\msdxm.ocx
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [VSOCheckTask] "c:\PROGRA~1\mcafee.com\vso\mcmnhdlr.exe" /checktask
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [MCAgentExe] c:\PROGRA~1\mcafee.com\agent\mcagent.exe
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [DwlClient] C:\Program Files\Common Files\Dell\EUSW\Support.exe
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [VirusScan Online] "c:\PROGRA~1\mcafee.com\vso\mcvsshld.exe"
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [MPFExe] C:\PROGRA~1\McAfee.com\PERSON~1\MpfTray.exe
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [MCUpdateExe] C:\PROGRA~1\mcafee.com\agent\McUpdate.exe
O4 - HKCU\..\Run: [CookieJar] C:\Program Files\Cookie Jar\CookieJar.exe /qd_banned /qd_undecided
O8 - Extra context menu item: &Add animation to IncrediMail Style Box - C:\PROGRA~1\INCRED~1\bin\resources\WebMenuImg.htm
O9 - Extra 'Tools' menuitem: Sun Java Console (HKLM)
O9 - Extra button: Messenger (HKLM)
O9 - Extra 'Tools' menuitem: Yahoo! Messenger (HKLM)
O9 - Extra button: ICQ Pro (HKLM)
O9 - Extra 'Tools' menuitem: ICQ (HKLM)
O15 - Trusted Zone: http://www.hotmail.com
O15 - Trusted Zone: http://www.pcpitstop.com
O16 - DPF: {0E5F0222-96B9-11D3-8997-00104BD12D94} (PCPitstop Utility) - http://www.pcpitstop...p/pcpitstop.cab
O16 - DPF: {2BC66F54-93A8-11D3-BEB6-00105AA9B6AE} (Symantec AntiVirus scanner) - http://security.syma...bin/AvSniff.cab
O16 - DPF: {30528230-99F7-4BB4-88D8-FA1D4F56A2AB} (YInstStarter Class) - http://download.yaho...s/yinst0401.cab
O16 - DPF: {4ED9DDF0-7479-4BBE-9335-5A1EDB1D8A21} (McAfee.com Operating System Class) - http://download.mcaf...81/mcinsctl.cab
O16 - DPF: {9732FB42-C321-11D1-836F-00A0C993F125} (mhLabel Class) - http://www.pcpitstop.com/mhLbl.cab
O16 - DPF: {BCC0FF27-31D9-4614-A68E-C18E1ADA4389} (DwnldGroupMgr Class) - http://download.mcaf...,19/mcgdmgr.cab
O16 - DPF: {D27CDB6E-AE6D-11CF-96B8-444553540000} (Shockwave Flash Object) - http://fpdownload.ma...ash/swflash.cab
O16 - DPF: {DF780F87-FF2B-4DF8-92D0-73DB16A1543A} (PopCapLoader Object) - http://utu.popcap.co...aploader_v5.cab

Thanks for your help!

#4 cheerios

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Posted 24 May 2004 - 03:17 PM

Seems my hijacking problem is still going on....found out that the spybloc ad pages are not limited to SWI site as I posted earlier (sorry), they're random. Am still getting annoying spotresults.com and zestyfinder.com. pages also. Spybot scan shows nothing, Adaware keeps showing 6to4svc.dll as a Data Miner in Windows\System32 and a " _restore....dll" file in System Volume Information folder as a Data Miner also. Adaware removes the "_restore" file but it keeps coming back each time I reboot. It says it can't remove the 6to4svc.dll file, however. New HJT log follows. Thanks again for any help!

Logfile of HijackThis v1.97.7
Scan saved at 3:15:05 PM, on 5/24/2004
Platform: Windows XP SP1 (WinNT 5.01.2600)
MSIE: Internet Explorer v6.00 SP1 (6.00.2800.1106)

Running processes:
C:\WINDOWS\System32\smss.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\winlogon.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\services.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\lsass.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\svchost.exe
C:\WINDOWS\System32\svchost.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\rundll32.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\spoolsv.exe
C:\WINDOWS\Explorer.EXE
C:\PROGRA~1\mcafee.com\agent\mcagent.exe
C:\Program Files\Common Files\Dell\EUSW\Support.exe
C:\PROGRA~1\mcafee.com\vso\mcvsshld.exe
C:\PROGRA~1\McAfee.com\PERSON~1\MpfTray.exe
C:\Program Files\Dell\Support\Alert\bin\NotifyAlert.exe
c:\progra~1\mcafee.com\vso\mcvsescn.exe
C:\PROGRA~1\COMMON~1\AOL\ACS\acsd.exe
C:\WINDOWS\System32\CTsvcCDA.exe
c:\PROGRA~1\mcafee.com\vso\mcvsrte.exe
C:\PROGRA~1\McAfee.com\PERSON~1\MPFSERVICE.exe
C:\WINDOWS\System32\MsPMSPSv.exe
C:\PROGRA~1\McAfee.com\PERSON~1\MpfAgent.exe
c:\PROGRA~1\mcafee.com\vso\mcshield.exe
c:\progra~1\mcafee.com\vso\mcvsftsn.exe
C:\Program Files\Internet Explorer\IEXPLORE.EXE
C:\HijackThis\HijackThis.exe

R0 - HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main,Start Page = http://www.neopets.com/
R1 - HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main,Default_Page_URL = http://www.dell4me.com/myway
R1 - HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Internet Settings,ProxyServer = 192.168.0.1:85
N3 - Netscape 7: user_pref("browser.startup.homepage", "http://www.neopets.com"); (C:\Documents and Settings\Cheryl Minnis\Application Data\Mozilla\Profiles\default\kvrqui03.slt\prefs.js)
N3 - Netscape 7: user_pref("browser.search.defaultengine", "engine://C%3A%5CProgram%20Files%5Cmozilla.org%5CMozilla%5Csearchplugins%5Cgoogle.src"); (C:\Documents and Settings\Cheryl Minnis\Application Data\Mozilla\Profiles\default\kvrqui03.slt\prefs.js)
O3 - Toolbar: McAfee VirusScan - {BA52B914-B692-46c4-B683-905236F6F655} - c:\progra~1\mcafee.com\vso\mcvsshl.dll
O3 - Toolbar: &Radio - {8E718888-423F-11D2-876E-00A0C9082467} - C:\WINDOWS\System32\msdxm.ocx
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [VSOCheckTask] "c:\PROGRA~1\mcafee.com\vso\mcmnhdlr.exe" /checktask
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [MCAgentExe] c:\PROGRA~1\mcafee.com\agent\mcagent.exe
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [DwlClient] C:\Program Files\Common Files\Dell\EUSW\Support.exe
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [VirusScan Online] "c:\PROGRA~1\mcafee.com\vso\mcvsshld.exe"
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [MPFExe] C:\PROGRA~1\McAfee.com\PERSON~1\MpfTray.exe
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [MCUpdateExe] C:\PROGRA~1\mcafee.com\agent\McUpdate.exe
O4 - HKCU\..\Run: [CookieJar] C:\Program Files\Cookie Jar\CookieJar.exe /qd_banned /qd_undecided
O8 - Extra context menu item: &Add animation to IncrediMail Style Box - C:\PROGRA~1\INCRED~1\bin\resources\WebMenuImg.htm
O9 - Extra 'Tools' menuitem: Sun Java Console (HKLM)
O9 - Extra button: Messenger (HKLM)
O9 - Extra 'Tools' menuitem: Yahoo! Messenger (HKLM)
O9 - Extra button: ICQ Pro (HKLM)
O9 - Extra 'Tools' menuitem: ICQ (HKLM)
O15 - Trusted Zone: http://www.hotmail.com
O15 - Trusted Zone: http://www.pcpitstop.com
O16 - DPF: {0E5F0222-96B9-11D3-8997-00104BD12D94} (PCPitstop Utility) - http://www.pcpitstop...p/pcpitstop.cab
O16 - DPF: {2BC66F54-93A8-11D3-BEB6-00105AA9B6AE} (Symantec AntiVirus scanner) - http://security.syma...bin/AvSniff.cab
O16 - DPF: {30528230-99F7-4BB4-88D8-FA1D4F56A2AB} (YInstStarter Class) - http://download.yaho...s/yinst0401.cab
O16 - DPF: {4ED9DDF0-7479-4BBE-9335-5A1EDB1D8A21} (McAfee.com Operating System Class) - http://download.mcaf...81/mcinsctl.cab
O16 - DPF: {9732FB42-C321-11D1-836F-00A0C993F125} (mhLabel Class) - http://www.pcpitstop.com/mhLbl.cab
O16 - DPF: {BCC0FF27-31D9-4614-A68E-C18E1ADA4389} (DwnldGroupMgr Class) - http://download.mcaf...,19/mcgdmgr.cab
O16 - DPF: {D27CDB6E-AE6D-11CF-96B8-444553540000} (Shockwave Flash Object) - http://fpdownload.ma...ash/swflash.cab
O16 - DPF: {DF780F87-FF2B-4DF8-92D0-73DB16A1543A} (PopCapLoader Object) - http://utu.popcap.co...aploader_v5.cab

#5 cheerios

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Posted 24 May 2004 - 09:31 PM

Anybody around to help me with this? Thanks!

#6 Newkid

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Posted 24 May 2004 - 10:54 PM

Hello Cheerios,

Last couple of days was really hectic for me as a result i couldn't look your log yesterday. I am apologise for it.

There is nothing alarming in your log. It looks clean to me. But it seems that you still have the same issue..

Now, first Reboot your machine and boot into safe mode by tapping F8 key(8-9 times) at bootup.

Now first, Turn off System Restore:

On the Desktop, right-click My Computer.
Click Properties.
Click the System Restore tab.
Check Turn off System Restore.
Click Apply, and then click OK.
Restart your computer.

Then, Go here and do an online virus scan: http://housecall.trendmicro.com/

Be sure and put a check in the box by Auto Clean before you do the scan. If it finds anything that it cannot clean have it delete it or make a note of the file location so you can delete it yourself.

When you've done all, Empty your recycle bin and reboot and boot into normal mode

Now, Download the latest version of Ad-Aware at http://www.lavasoftu...pport/download/

After installing AAW, and before running the program, you NEED to FIRST update the reference file following these instructions.

Now do the following:

- Under Ad-aware 6 > Settings (Gear at the top) > Tweak > Scanning Engine:
check: "Unload recognized processes during scanning."

- Under Ad-aware 6 > Settings (Gear at the top) > Tweak > Cleaning Engine:
Check: "Let Windows remove files in use after reboot."

Press "Scan Now"

- Check option "Use Custom scanning options"
- Check option "Activate In-Depth Scan"
- Press "Select drives\folders to scan"
- Select the active partition which is usually C:

Now press "Next" to let Ad-aware scan your drives...
It will find a number of "bad" files and registry keys.
Right-click in that pane and choose "select all"

Now press "Next" again.
It will ask you whether you'd like to remove all checked items. Click OK.

Finally, close Ad-Aware, and reboot.

Turn system restore back on and create a restore point.

Re-run Hijack This, and show us a fresh log with full startup list. and let's see what shows up there.

Open hijackthis and click on Config... under the "Other Stuff" section. Then click on the "Misc Tools" button. Make sure the "List also minor sections (full) and the List empty sections (domplete) boxes are checked. Then click on the "generate startuplist log" button. Save the startup list and post it.

With Thanks !
Newkid !

Edited by Newkid, 24 May 2004 - 10:58 PM.

Once a new technology rolls over you, if you're not part of the streamroller, you're part of the road.

No one can drive us crazy unless we give them the keys




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