Jump to content


the Mike Healan defense!?


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
16 replies to this topic

#1 Guest_Guest_Silverbrain_*_*

Guest_Guest_Silverbrain_*_*
  • Guests

Posted 06 May 2005 - 07:50 AM

Sure seems like that if you need that much defense, as a lead of the spywareinfo site, something is off. I personally have NO antivirus on my main computer, I have NO anti-spyware, i DO use Internet Explorer, i DO use outlook express (access a hotmail account, and another pop account) The only software I use is Zonealarm to replace sp2 firewall.

In six months of running my setup like this, i did run some online virus scan (trend, ca and bitdefender) which found nothing. I installed ad-aware and did a full system scan, only a few tracking cookies.

I do use my computer daily, visit a dozen sites or so in my daily troll through the news, I get 30 junk messages a day. I have even gone to certain questionable sites to get some no-cd patches. Still nothing in my machine after six months.

To the average user, having to figure out a full firewall system, knowing all the programs that want to go out...is trying on them at best. SP2 firewall, while it doesnt monitor outgoing..is easy for the user. startup managers, again without the knowledge of what programs are or do, tough. Firefox in my experience plays games on certain sites as they are designed for IE, and having to tweak it to get it to work right is well above average user again. 3 program updates have been released for it already to fix security...3!! And theres no easy way for the average user to know that...windowsupdates, while intrusive..does offer an easy way for average users to get updates.

If people practice safe computing, never accepting downloads from the internet, not opening attachments from people they dont know, and just having something like AVG on their system, it will be easier for them. Not surfing for free pr0n always helps too. download.com took a good step this week announcing it wouldnt have spyware bundled apps for download...hope the others follow suit.

2 cents from a tech who cleans out computers infected...daily. - Silver

#2 mitchshrader

mitchshrader

    Member

  • Retired Staff - Helper
  • Pip
  • 29 posts

Posted 06 May 2005 - 08:07 AM

If you don't jump out of airplanes you don't need a parachute.

Your implication that because YOUR surfing/computer habits have worked, so far, for you.. should be applicable to what Others Need in order to remain functional, is peurile.

I am a firm believer in prevention. I use windows. I have teenagers. I have a VERY LOW (near 0) exposure to malware due to informed habits. I have an excellent record of MY system working for me. This means fugall about anyone else.

Much as I wish otherwise, I have no concept of what exploits will be invented tomorrow, (or were invented last week, usually) nor how they may affect people who use other programs and websites than do I.

However expert you may be, you have ONE perspective, (out of perhaps half a billion Windows users).. and not only is it true that noone knows it all, it's also true than noone knows Even A Significant Fraction of it all.

Humble up. Your experience is valuable, right up until you start acting like it applies to everyone. At which point, it becomes misguided wanna-be-guru BS.
Helpers Rules (as I see 'em)
First, Do No Harm!
Second, Use Known Good (canned) Fixes when possible.
Third, Get Help From Others when not positive of your answer.
Fourth, Do Not Recommend complex procedures without verifying the skill of the user to accomplish necessary tasks.
Fifth, Specify optional removals as 'Users Choice'.
Sixth, Give Credit for info and assistance.
Last, BE POLITE. Especially when it is most difficult.

#3 Merijn

Merijn

    Coding monkey

  • Developer
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 260 posts

Posted 06 May 2005 - 08:16 AM

Well, you're part right. If you know what you're doing, you don't need AV or antispyware. I don't run any antivirus either, but I run Kerio firewall to keep newbie scanners out of my way. Not to prevent them from hacking into my system, which they can't do anyway.

The real problems are 1) worms that propagate through security issues that are present on a default system, and 2) sites that use exploits. You can avoid the latter by not visiting any questionable sites, but even then you can run across an exploit. I've seen it twice where the advertisers on a respectable news site or similar had been hacked and were spreading viruses.
The first issue (worms) can be stopped with a vanilla firewall. Be it ZoneAlarm, the XP firewall, Norton or Kerio, they will probably all stop a worm on the default configuration.

However, using IE on such an unprotected system is, in my opinion, SUICIDE. I see new vulnerabilities pop up all over the place weekly, and I wouldn't want to be in your shoes when you happen to run across one in the wild. There have been a few periods in the past few months where using a fully up to date IE6 would NOT protect you from at least 3 exploits that were used frequently in the wild.

The point that FireFox has needed three updates in a relavitely short period is irrelevant, since even though exploits are found for FF faster now it's going mainstream (and pretty successfully I might add), these fixes appear faster than patches from MS are issued. Plus they have automatic update checks as well, which is a major pro. I don't use FF myself but I would recommend it to anyone asking for an IE alternative. The Mozilla has done a fine job creating an alternative for IE.

IMO, all that's needed to secure the system of someone who is new to computers, is turn on automatic updates from Microsoft, get some firewall like ZoneAlarm, and replace IE with Mozilla, Firefox, Opera 7+ or whatever.

#4 LostAccount

LostAccount

    Forum Deity

  • Trusted Advisor
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,291 posts

Posted 06 May 2005 - 10:21 AM

I believe that layered protection is the best way to go... Anyway, to address your concerns:

Sure seems like that if you need that much defense, as a lead of the spywareinfo site, something is off. I personally have NO antivirus on my main computer, I have NO anti-spyware, i DO use Internet Explorer, i DO use outlook express (access a hotmail account, and another pop account) The only software I use is Zonealarm to replace sp2 firewall.


Who says that we don't use IE? We need it for Windows Update and some ActiveX controls. We recommend Firefox for its lack of discovered security holes... we didn't say it's flawless but what matters is that script kiddies and the like cannot use glaring holes (MS doesn't patch some IE holes) right now.

You have no anti-spyware... that's fine with us... you seem to be sure that you have absolutely no spyware at all... I agree that it is more or less useless to keep such a tool then (if you are 100% sure)... but remember that we use them to clean user's PCs that have clearly been infected.

You have no anti-virus... even I disable mine at times and go online without any problems... as long as you block the possible vectors with tools such as firewalls, you are fine. But you forget that:

The real problems are 1) worms that propagate through security issues that are present on a default system, and 2) sites that use exploits. You can avoid the latter by not visiting any questionable sites, but even then you can run across an exploit. I've seen it twice where the advertisers on a respectable news site or similar had been hacked and were spreading viruses.


And many worms can still squeeze in this way... remember when the I-Frame expoit was released in November last year? A very large media advertisement company was hacked and exploit code was injected into HTML. The MVPs HOSTS file had prevented it from working (because it blocked the company's website).

In six months of running my setup like this, i did run some online virus scan (trend, ca and bitdefender) which found nothing. I installed ad-aware and did a full system scan, only a few tracking cookies.


Of course they found nothing... as long as you are able to protect your system properly (by whatever means... for you it seems as though avoiding bad sites is enough), they would find nothing... However, please remember that most of the members have nothing on when they come here... how do you think they got infected in the first place?? Not everyone is as "smart" as you in terms of keeping their PCs safe...

I do use my computer daily, visit a dozen sites or so in my daily troll through the news, I get 30 junk messages a day. I have even gone to certain questionable sites to get some no-cd patches. Still nothing in my machine after six months.


You are either very lucky or those sites had no exploit code in them... It is certainly not advisable to use an an unpatched browser (correct me if I'm wrong) to surf such sites... The experts here are witnesses to that... they just use VMware or some other virtual machines and infect their VMs just by visitng sites thriugh unpatched browsers.

To the average user, having to figure out a full firewall system, knowing all the programs that want to go out...is trying on them at best. SP2 firewall, while it doesnt monitor outgoing..is easy for the user. startup managers, again without the knowledge of what programs are or do, tough. Firefox in my experience plays games on certain sites as they are designed for IE, and having to tweak it to get it to work right is well above average user again. 3 program updates have been released for it already to fix security...3!! And theres no easy way for the average user to know that...windowsupdates, while intrusive..does offer an easy way for average users to get updates.


The default configuration already works for most firewalls and users... no tweaking is needed... the SP2 firewall may not alert the user to the fact that something bad inside (a trojan) his PC is trying to connect to the Internet... that is a major flaw... even a beginner will know that there is something wrong when his firewall (such as Zonealarm) will pop-up messages saying this program is trying to connect to this address. Firefox will put a message on the screen saying that you have an update... isn't that easy enough??? It's not as if IE has no flaws either...

If people practice safe computing, never accepting downloads from the internet, not opening attachments from people they dont know, and just having something like AVG on their system, it will be easier for them. Not surfing for free pr0n always helps too. download.com took a good step this week announcing it wouldnt have spyware bundled apps for download...hope the others follow suit.


Well, I agree with these last points... but most people never follow them... so the only thing we can do is to offer them some prevention tips and hope (some of them don't follow instructions) they take note of them...

Please note that we are not bent on putting down you comments... nothing like that... We must establish the validity of your statements however... and you must keep in mind that many users repeatedly come back... based on our own experiences... the software we recommend, to a large extent, helps to protect the PCs. Anyway, it has never caused anyone any harm...

P.S.: Please register if you want to post... it would make it easier for the mods ifthey need to move this post or anything...

Edited by LostAccount, 06 May 2005 - 10:24 AM.

<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'><b>Useful Software</b>:</span>
<a href='https://www.kaspersky.com'target='_blank'><i>Kaspersky</i></a>, <a href='https://housecall.trendmicro.com/' target='_blank'>Housecall <i>Trendmicro</i></a>, <a href='https://www.emsisoft.com' target='_blank'><i>a2 free edition</i></a>, <a href='https://www.kerio.com' target='_blank'><i>Kerio Personal Firewall</i></a>, <a href='https://www.lavasoftusa.com' target='_blank'><i>Ad-aware SE</i></a>, <a href='https://security.kolla.de' target='_blank'><i>Spybot S&D</i></a>, <a href='https://www.merijn.org/files/hijackthis.zip' target='_blank'><i>HJT</i></a>, <a href='https://www.cwshredder.net' target='_blank'><i>CWShredder</i></a>, <a href='https://www.mvps.org/winhelp2002/hosts.htm' target='_blank'><i>MVPS HOSTS file by WinHelp2002</i></a>, <a href='https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/ehowes/www/resource.htm' target='_blank'><i>IE-SPYAD by eburger68</i></a>, <a href='https://www.javacoolsoftware.com/' target='_blank'><i>Spywareguard and Spywareblaster</i></a>, <a href='https://www.winpatrol.com' target='_blank'><i>Winpatrol</i></a>, <a href='https://www.mozilla.org' target='_blank'><i>Mozilla & Firefox</i></a>

#5 ErikAlbert

ErikAlbert

    Typical User

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 787 posts

Posted 06 May 2005 - 10:42 AM

I'm not an expert in malware, but my computer is also malware-free according my anti-malware scanners.
Each time one of my scanners says "Congratulations! Your computer isn't infected.", I think "Thank you, and what about the malwares you didn't find and removed ?"

Right, I don't trust any of these anti-malware scanners and every six months I reinstall my computer completely, just to make sure that my computer is 99% malware-free at least two times a year.

I wonder how somebody (even an expert) can be absolutely sure that his computer is 100% malware-free.
What about brand new malwares, that aren't even discovered by researchers.
Maybe there are malwares, that don't make your computer acting strange and won't strike you unless you guard the movements in your computer constantly like a hawk in bits and bytes.
Do experts really know, what each malware program does in a computer without having the source code.
(I have been a programmer during 10 years and I know how good or bad a programmer can be, behind the screen)

Malware Forums, like SWI are absolutely NECESSARY, because they
1. make newbies AWARE of malware infections
2. tell newbies how to prevent malware infections.
3. tell newbies how to protect themselves against malware infections
4. recommend newbies the right anti-malware softwares.
5. HELP desperate newbies to remove malware from their computer for free.
6. ... (I probably forgot to mention alot of other advantages of SWI)
Some experts don't realize or forgot how it is to be a newbie, but the experts at SWI know all about it.

I admit, I'm not a big fan of the actual anti-malware solutions, but it's all I have and I selected all my anti-malware softwares by reading the qualified posts at SWI.
That's why my computer is so called "malware-free" between january/june and july/december without being an expert :)
ErikAlbert
Simplicity is always brilliant.

#6 Swandog46

Swandog46

    Forum Deity

  • Retired Staff
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,190 posts

Posted 06 May 2005 - 11:14 AM

Besides, the reason Firefox has had three security patches in two months is because the Firefox team actually cares enough to patch any security holes they might find... IE doesn't release as many security patches, not because there aren't loopholes, but just because Microsoft doesn't bother to fix them...

#7 Paranoid

Paranoid

    Forum Deity

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 533 posts

Posted 06 May 2005 - 11:27 AM

I wonder how somebody (even an expert) can be absolutely sure that his computer is 100% malware-free.


They can be pretty sure but they can't be 100% sure of course. A 'programmer'
of your experience should know that.

What about brand new malwares, that aren't even discovered by researchers.


Because, if you are truly 'expert' you don't just rely on scanners. Eg you monitor critical system files, network connections, whatnot. Doesn't give you 100% certainity, but the only things certain in life is death and taxes.

Maybe there are malwares, that don't make your computer acting strange and won't strike you unless you guard the movements in your computer constantly like a hawk in bits and bytes.


And maybe the goldbach conjecture is true :rofl:


Do experts really know, what each malware program does in a computer without having the source code.
(I have been a programmer during 10 years and I know how good or bad a programmer can be, behind the screen)


what does this have to do with anything?
Please note that the software I recommend above is entirely based on only my own experience and testing. In no way should my comments,opinions and endorsements be construed as an endorsement by the forum, nor do they reflect the advise or recommendations by the experts or helpers at spywareinfo.


#8 Paranoid

Paranoid

    Forum Deity

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 533 posts

Posted 06 May 2005 - 11:30 AM

I believe that layered protection is the best way to go...


Sounds impressive, but do tell our home audience what this means...

Edited by Paranoid, 06 May 2005 - 11:40 AM.

Please note that the software I recommend above is entirely based on only my own experience and testing. In no way should my comments,opinions and endorsements be construed as an endorsement by the forum, nor do they reflect the advise or recommendations by the experts or helpers at spywareinfo.


#9 ErikAlbert

ErikAlbert

    Typical User

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 787 posts

Posted 06 May 2005 - 12:20 PM

Paranoid,
Thanks for confirming my assertions.
I know it's difficult for an expert like you to admit that nothing is certain in the Malware World, but keep up the appearance.
After all we both try to keep our computer malware-free in spite of all that these insecurities :)
We remove what we know and we live with what we don't know :D
ErikAlbert
Simplicity is always brilliant.

#10 LostAccount

LostAccount

    Forum Deity

  • Trusted Advisor
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,291 posts

Posted 06 May 2005 - 11:20 PM

Sounds impressive, but do tell our home audience what this means...

View Post


It was midnight on my side of the world and I was not even supposed to be in here... thus, explaining my laziness (to define such things)...

Anyway, it's essentially multiple layers of protection... I know that's an answer that's no answer... so let me just say that it contains various tools (or even just one but I have yet to see such a tool) that block most of the ways that malware can enter...

For example, IE-SPYAD and Spywareblaster both prevent malware-ridden sites from exploiting any holes by placing them in the restricted zone... which if properly configured, truly restricts these sites from doing anything much. HOSTS files can block these sites altogether... so nothing on your PC can access the sites... And the lists goes on and on until you reach on-access Anti-spyware or AV solutions which detect malware that go through the generic layer of defenses and block them...

If you don't understand, a simpler analogy would be the human body... the skin (generic layer) prevents germs from coming through while the immune system (more specific signature-based tools) kills germs that have gotten through the first layer.

Hope this clears things up a little bit...

--LA
<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'><b>Useful Software</b>:</span>
<a href='https://www.kaspersky.com'target='_blank'><i>Kaspersky</i></a>, <a href='https://housecall.trendmicro.com/' target='_blank'>Housecall <i>Trendmicro</i></a>, <a href='https://www.emsisoft.com' target='_blank'><i>a2 free edition</i></a>, <a href='https://www.kerio.com' target='_blank'><i>Kerio Personal Firewall</i></a>, <a href='https://www.lavasoftusa.com' target='_blank'><i>Ad-aware SE</i></a>, <a href='https://security.kolla.de' target='_blank'><i>Spybot S&D</i></a>, <a href='https://www.merijn.org/files/hijackthis.zip' target='_blank'><i>HJT</i></a>, <a href='https://www.cwshredder.net' target='_blank'><i>CWShredder</i></a>, <a href='https://www.mvps.org/winhelp2002/hosts.htm' target='_blank'><i>MVPS HOSTS file by WinHelp2002</i></a>, <a href='https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/ehowes/www/resource.htm' target='_blank'><i>IE-SPYAD by eburger68</i></a>, <a href='https://www.javacoolsoftware.com/' target='_blank'><i>Spywareguard and Spywareblaster</i></a>, <a href='https://www.winpatrol.com' target='_blank'><i>Winpatrol</i></a>, <a href='https://www.mozilla.org' target='_blank'><i>Mozilla & Firefox</i></a>

#11 Budfred

Budfred

    Malware Hound

  • Administrators
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 21,530 posts

Posted 06 May 2005 - 11:34 PM

Guest_Silverbrain_*,

You wouldn't happen to profit from cleaning up infected computers by any chance??
Budfred

Helpful link: SpywareBlaster...

MS MVP 2006 and ASAP Member since 2004

Please read the Instructions for posting requested logs and the article "So how did I get infected in the first place?"

#12 Paranoid

Paranoid

    Forum Deity

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 533 posts

Posted 07 May 2005 - 02:46 AM

Paranoid,
Thanks for confirming my assertions.
I know it's difficult for an expert like you to admit that nothing is certain in the Malware World, but keep up the appearance.
After all we both try to keep our computer malware-free in spite of all that these insecurities :)
We remove what we know and we live with what we don't know :D

View Post


Actually, I lied.

See http://www.spywarein...topic=47193&hl= where I explain how I figured out a 100% foolproof method of detecting malware, but obviously I can't tell you how, because I'm part of the conspiracy to earn money off you poor suckers.

:rofl:
Please note that the software I recommend above is entirely based on only my own experience and testing. In no way should my comments,opinions and endorsements be construed as an endorsement by the forum, nor do they reflect the advise or recommendations by the experts or helpers at spywareinfo.


#13 Silverbrain

Silverbrain

    Member

  • New Member
  • Pip
  • 2 posts

Posted 10 May 2005 - 08:48 PM

:edit: apparently I don't know how to properly quote..the first half was quoting fine..but now its a mess. Sorry, ill keep trying some stuffs.

[quote name='Budfred' date='May 7 2005, 12:34 AM']
Guest_Silverbrain_*,

You wouldn't happen to profit from cleaning up infected computers by any chance??
[/quote]

As a matter of fact, it's my job! and I guess you all must come to the one shop i work at on the west coast..and ill let you in all of the truths.. :p Seriously though..I work for a retail storefront that fixes computers. A year or so ago, 70% of all the work was virus removal...now 70% is spyware/malware/adware removal. I open up HijackThis (tool is invaluable) at least 5 times a day (average throughput at the store is about 10-15 computers a day) and as such, I have a bird's eye view on whats going on, new malware tricks, and I get to talk to people and deal with phone calls. The average computer user likes to read email, browse the web, and play games...nothing more. For awhile the company I work for tested putting on Zonealarm free on people's computers, default settings...and the phone calls went through the roof... "whats lucomserv, whys it trying to get to the internet"..."whats windows generic host service"...."what is wmplayer"..."it says changed program..."did you update the program?"...yes...then accept it" HP has so many files..its tough. Chances are that if a trojan did get into the machine, and attempted internet access and zonealarm asked the user...the user, not knowing, would say SURE! for fear of his computer not working if he didnt. That example is real, many customers have said they did that before bringing in the machine. They just dont know any better.

I have never offered up to a customer "naw, you dont need antivirus, just practice safe computing" in fact I make sure they have it or if they dont want to buy it from us, that they need it. I assume customers open any and all attachments w/o thinking. Education is key )

[quote name='mitchshrader]and not only is it true that noone knows it all' date=' it's also true than noone knows Even A Significant Fraction of it all.[/QUOTE']

True, but while there are jacks of all trades, I am pretty specialized in what I do. I have only rebuilt a machine once...due to an infection I could not remove at the time "clkoptimize", when it first came out. Fun stuff. It's no longer a bother. :evilgrin:

[quote name='mitchshrader]Humble up. Your experience is valuable' date=' right up until you start acting like it applies to everyone. At which point, it becomes misguided wanna-be-guru BS. [/QUOTE']

Why wouldn't my experience of cleaning over 1000 computers not apply to everyone? Practice safe computing is my point! free pr0n is evil, Kazaa is evil.

[quote name='merijn]However' date=' using IE on such an unprotected system is, in my opinion, SUICIDE. I see new vulnerabilities pop up all over the place weekly, and I wouldn't want to be in your shoes when you happen to run across one in the wild. [/QUOTE']


Merijn, your hijackthis is the most valuable tool in my arsenal, I thank you time and time again :D You mention an "unprotected system"....are you referring to the rig i run? or a non firewalled version? Exploits exist, they exist for Opera, IE, Firefox (another big one announced today) and others...no way around that.

[QUOTE]The point that FireFox has needed three updates in a relavitely short period is irrelevant, since even though exploits are found for FF faster now it's going mainstream [/QUOTE]

its going mainstream...and its hit the big time, hackers im sure have barely touched the surface of this program, much like their prying eyes are starting to look over at Apple...and patches are coming out more rapidly. The point I make here is that nothing is secure if enough eyes and minds look into it. People jumping onto the firefox ship is just a temporary solution, and I feel the security holes are going to get more and more..I dont wish for it, but I just think it is.

[QUOTE=LostAccount]Who says that we don't use IE? [/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=the newsletter]The most effective single thing I do to prevent malware infection is not to use Internet Explorer [/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]but remember that we use them to clean user's PCs that have clearly been infected.[/QUOTE]

anti-spyware I meant was the startup managers, the shields in spysweeper, the spybot running protection.

[QUOTE]Of course they found nothing... as long as you are able to protect your system properly (by whatever means... for you it seems as though avoiding bad sites is enough), they would find nothing... However, please remember that most of the members have nothing on when they come here... how do you think they got infected in the first place?? Not everyone is as "smart" as you in terms of keeping their PCs safe...[/QUOTE]

I don't completely avoid bad sites, I know searching for a no-cd patch carries a risk. I still get machines in my shop with Service Pack 0...blaster, welchia and others..still! My point was that it seems the newsletter could easily preach "practice safe computing" rather then saying you need all these programs that constantly monitor your system and hog a part of performance, software the average user won't have a clue what to do with. It really has nothing to do with "smart" but informed common sense. The systems that I get back 3 months after a cleaning, are typically those from parents of teenagers...Kazaa is their friend, and the parents dont enforce any rules about it otherwise.

[QUOTE]even a beginner will know that there is something wrong when his firewall (such as Zonealarm) will pop-up messages saying this program is trying to connect to this address.[/QUOTE]

I really beg to differ. Zonealarm throws up a program "hpcmdlv" is trying to go out...they have an HP printer..they allow it. I know this as I fixed a computer today with that scenario. Experience says that you weren't doing anything but surfing..why is my printer wanting internet? More experience says that HP Does ask for internet to check for updates on the software, so were in a pickle. Do we deny all files starting with hp? My boss asks me on occasion what certain files going to the internet are....hes been doing this for 10+ years. :blush:

[QUOTE=ErikAlbert]I wonder how somebody (even an expert) can be absolutely sure that his computer is 100% malware-free.[/QUOTE]

I know the symptoms, I know what it looks like in HijackThis, I have cleaned enough computers to know that these programs are greedy...they arent subtle, giving you a popup every 3 days...3 minutes maybe. I know what the processes of my machine should be. 99.9% sure...im not that cocky :lol:

[QUOTE]Malware Forums, like SWI are absolutely NECESSARY, because they
[/QUOTE]

I couldn't agree more, they are an invaluable tool to remove and assist the average users. I often assist others with their logs over lunch, or other free time.

Edited by Silverbrain, 10 May 2005 - 09:02 PM.


#14 Tuxedo Jack

Tuxedo Jack

    Creator of TuxPE, a Cat5-o'-9-Tails, Etherkillers, and more

  • Expert
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,758 posts

Posted 12 May 2005 - 03:44 PM

I'm going to agree with some of what you're saying; safe computing is a necessity in this day and age. However, most users don't give a damn about it, and they never will. They want things they buy to work straight out of the box and stay working. That's why we techs are around, and unless they all move to dumb terminals on a giant X11 server somewhere, it's going to stay that way for the foreseeable future.

In regards to this:

I wonder how somebody (even an expert) can be absolutely sure that his computer is 100% malware-free.


It's very simple. You disconnect from the Internet/LAN, put your machine behind a NAT router, then do a fresh OS install from straight-out-of-the-box media (or MD5/SHA1 verified matches on ISO images from the source sites; get and verify both, since collisions have been found in each). Windows Update/apt-get/urpmi what's needed before you even consider going on the Internet proper, then install protection software.

Tedious and annoying as hell, I know, but ever since 1997 or so, it's been going downhill.

Next:

Why wouldn't my experience of cleaning over 1000 computers not apply to everyone? Practice safe computing is my point! free pr0n is evil, Kazaa is evil.


Not everyone's system is the same. Everyone customizes their system to do what they will, and if they wish to ruin it with crap, it's not our place to tell them otherwise. We just clean up what they do and shake our heads at the mess, then make recommendations, knowing that they'll be back in a few weeks.

As is, all we can do is try to reform the users' habits in regards to their machines - give them Firefox, tell them to use Windows Update, and give them a whole suite of protective tools. Whether they use them or not is entirely up to them.

Oh, and in regards to the code for quoting in IPB (from what you're using, it looks like you're used to PHPBB or some variant thereof):

To quote, say this:

[quote]YOUR TEXT HERE[/quote]

Code uses code and /code instead of quote and /quote, but it works the same way.

You just have to work around the screwiness.

Edited by Tuxedo Jack, 12 May 2005 - 03:47 PM.

Signature file is under revision. This will be back shortly.

#15 cnm

cnm

    Mother Lion of SWI

  • Retired Staff
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 25,317 posts

Posted 12 May 2005 - 03:58 PM

You just have to work around the screwiness.

View Post

And you can refer to the BB Code Help under the smilies frame. Or use mouse to select the text you want to format, then click the appropriate button at the top.
Microsoft MVP Windows Security 2005-2006
How camest thou in this pickle? -- William Shakespeare:(1564-1616)
The various helper groups here
UNITE

#16 Tuxedo Jack

Tuxedo Jack

    Creator of TuxPE, a Cat5-o'-9-Tails, Etherkillers, and more

  • Expert
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,758 posts

Posted 12 May 2005 - 04:14 PM

You just have to work around the screwiness.

View Post

And you can refer to the BB Code Help under the smilies frame. Or use mouse to select the text you want to format, then click the appropriate button at the top.

View Post


That works too. There's also the Quote button at the bottom of a post - click it, then click "Add Reply." It doesn't seem to work with Fast Reply.
Signature file is under revision. This will be back shortly.

#17 Budfred

Budfred

    Malware Hound

  • Administrators
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 21,530 posts

Posted 08 September 2006 - 05:37 AM

Locked due to the attentions of a pest with excrement for brains who believes that he/she has nothing better to do than SPAM useless garbage to this particular topic... As parasites go, you have the tenacity of a lyme disease carrying deer tick and the intelligence of a steaming pile of fecal material... may your kharmic results reflect the full force of your petty spirit...
Budfred

Helpful link: SpywareBlaster...

MS MVP 2006 and ASAP Member since 2004

Please read the Instructions for posting requested logs and the article "So how did I get infected in the first place?"




Member of UNITE
Support SpywareInfo Forum - click the button